III MEETING - Vilnius


1th Day – Briefing in Viltis office and visit of Viltis Akimirka day care centre.

Attend the meeting Felice Bisogni, Stefano Pirrotta and Silvia Policelli from GAP organization; Zana
Skejo-Skoric, Tomislav Velìc, Maria Crnjac from Bubamara association; Natalija Olesova and Dana Migaliova from Viltis association; James Rutherford, Linda Barrett and Briony Williamson from Enable Scotland.

We meet at Viltis office Kareviu str. 2c, Vilnius . The office is located not far from the centre. By bus we passed the river Neris that cross Vilnius. From the bus we saw a bridge and a semicircular building whose architecture remind us the past communist regime in the country. We arrived at the bus stop “Pramogu arena” from where Natalija guides us to the Viltis's building. Recently renovated the building hosts at the second floor the administrative office of Viltis and at the first floor the Viltis Akimirka day care centre.




Natalija introduces Viltis organization. Viltis, (in English it means “hope”), has been founded in November 1989, just after the fall of the Berlin's wall. Parents of persons with intellectual disabilities found the organization to give support to the families. The organization has offices, day care centres and other services all around the country. Natalija starts to translate Uratia, the director of “Viltis Akimirka” (in English it means “moment of hope”). Uratia explains that “Vilties Akimirka” is a public institution founded by Viltis welfare society for persons with mental disability in 1999. Viltis Akimirka works under 3 programs: the family support program in Vilnius area, the special transport program and the day care centre program for people with very complex mental disabilities. Viltis Akimirka employ 14 persons. One psychologist, two social workers and one assistant of the social workers work within the family support programs. The family support program involves not only the person with mental disabilities but also others members of the family such us mother, fathers, brothers and sisters. It is active in the evening between 6 pm and 9 pm as a continuation of the day care program. The second program is the special transport program transporting everyday 220 children to 14 educational institutions and employing 20 workers. Vilties Akimirka has today 11 buses equipped for transportation of persons with disabilities and with wheel chair. The model of special transportation was “imported” by Dana from Canada. Since 2003 Vilnius municipality buy this services and at the time “Vilties Akimirka” was the only organization to do it. Nowadays many organizations competes offering this kind of service in the social services' market. The third program is the day care program for persons with very complex disabilities active at the first floor of the building in the centre where Andrius  works. 


Tomislav asks how the transport service is organized in the rural areas out of Vilnius. Dana replies that Viltis has different brunches in each region of the country: each of this brunch works independently in connection with the local municipality. “One of the main works we are doing nowadays is to be competitive in the social market trying to set up new services for persons with very high and complex needs: our ambition is to be the best” Dana replies.

This seems an interesting issue: from the born of Viltis in 1989 something changed. Nowadays Viltis acts in Lithuania as the main care service provider in a social market where also others organizations are active. In this framework Viltis cares the quality of the services and the development of new models of intervention.
We move to the first floor to visit the “Viltis Akimirka day care centre”: Andrius is our guide explaining how the centre works.

During 7 years the program for the day care of person with complex disabilities is financed by Vilties Akimirka centre. The centre is attended by 21 persons: 80 % - persons with  complex disabilities. “The main goal of the Centre is to promote self independence of persons with mental disabilities, to employ them in creative activity, to integrate them in the society”. “When we communicate with our clients we always say to them that we are here to work and not just to enjoy”. “They always have a lot of work to do: to communicate between each other but also to do excursions and shopping or going in the cafè to be integrated in the society”. “We start since 7 in the morning until late as we work in relationship with the parents’ wishes” Andrius says. Tomislav asks about the relationship between the centre and the neighbourhood: “How is the reaction of the society?” Uratia replies that “the situation is coming good little by little: this place is to say that this people exist”.

We start the visit of the centre and there are many rooms: one for each “gravity level” of the guests of the centre. Some of them join different activities; others rest in the beds and the sofas.

We are strangers in an ordinary day at the centre and clients seem curious.

Andrius shows us the rest of the centre: a kitchen and the room of the chinesitherapy where Andrius one hour per day works with each person attending the centre.  The centre doesn't work during the night and the clients are not allowed to pass the night in.

After the visit to the centre we come back to the second floor for a briefing. Jamie asks if the clients pay for the service. Uratia replies that the bigger percentage of the cost of the services is covered by the municipality and the rest by parents. “By the law people with mental disabilities can use until the 50% percentage of their income as disabled persons to pay for the services”. “For example my son pays 400 litas per mount that is not a big amount of money”,- Dana adds.

“What is the quality of institution in Lithuania?” Tomislav asks. “What kind of institution?” Dana replies. Tomislav explains that with the terms institution he intends place were persons with disabilities can rest night and day. “Like homes” Zana adds.

In this regards the term “institution” refers to residential structures opened 24 hours a day that substitute the families caring functions and that has weak relationships with the families itselves and with the local community.

Dana tells that in Lithuania there are 26 big institutions “coming from the soviet time and still active where live 6000 people”. “I'm a member of a monitoring committee coordinated by the ministry of social affairs”.  “During the last  mouths we have done many inspections discovering lot of human rights abuses such as sexual, physical and drug abuse in the institutions”. “After the reporting of such abuse the state decides to close the institution and on Monday there is the first meeting of the working group aimed to the start closing the institutions”. “For that we need to develop good community services ” Dana adds. “There also 3 institutions for mental disabled children: in soviet time there was 4000 children and nowadays there are 673”. “I guess this is also because meanwhile we have developed not bad quality community based services” Dana continues. “There also 3 babies home for children from 0 to 3 years for witch the ministry of health care is responsible”. Dana tells us also that there is a big debate linked to the application of the children rights convention that push for the closing of such institutions. The issue is now under discussion in the Lithuanian parliament.

Emerges the pictures of a country where de-institutionalization process is started and is on going. In this framework, as Dana says, is very important to set up community based services and to train professional workers.

Group homes and respite care services “to give a short break to the families” are the main community based service implemented in Lithuania to go along with de-institutionalization process. Tomislav propose a comparison with the de-institutionalization process in Croatia. “Due to the convention of human right and the European guidelines politicians are going to close the institutions and after that we do not know what will happen with this persons”. “It's incredible to close institutions without and alternatives” Tomislav adds. “What would it be the alternatives for the people that was in the institutions? Do they plan to organize some institutes or other things?” Jamie asks. “Home is the alternative: the family institution” Dana says. “We have a strong institution of families in Lithuania: my family and Natalija families are examples of how the family can be responsible of the caring of a person with mental disabilities” She adds.

The family represents as a social actor doing caring activities and dealing with problems, feelings, desirers of the persons with mental disabilities. The competence of the family in taking care of the child and in dealing with problems seems crucial. To help the family in developing this competence can lead to an improvement of the quality of life of the whole family.

“Nowadays we have 31000 persons with mental disabilities in Lithuania: 25000 stay in the families, 6000 in the institutions” Dana says. “In many cases family members are the only responsible for the caring of persons with mental disabilities. That's why families need to have supports via the services for the person with mental disabilities” Dana adds.

At this point we start to discuss organizational issues regarding the Viltis Akimirka day care centre. One problems - Natalija explains- is that if the clients doesn't attend the centre the municipality doesn't pay the daily rent. As a consequences the payments of the staff of the centre are not always guaranteed. Linda asks how this situation affect the mood of the staff of the centre. Natalija replies that on the one hand the workers are usually asked to be very charitable persons and on the other hand the organization use, as much as possible, extra money for other programs or from the families' payments to pay the staff.

Another discussed problem regards the waiting list of persons asking for services. “Many of them simply don't have any services” Dana says. “It' a difficult situation. We try to face it involving parents with no services in the summer camp activities or setting up discussion group every two weeks, specially in the countryside”. “Another possibility is to ask the families for a payment using a percentage of the welfare income of the persons with mental disabilities but especially in the countryside the families do not want to pay and we cannot do nothing” she adds.

Expectations and attitudes towards services and care service providers seems changing during the time: “We have different generations of users and new generation of parents looking for quality of the services since the early intervention: they are different from my generation”.

We understand something more about Viltis history. The initiator of the organizations was Professor Puras one of the founders members and an eminent Psychiatrician. Other initiator of the organization are parents of person with mental disabilities. Between that parents one of the founded members was Dana Migaliova. An important partner of Viltis since its foundation is Lebenshilfe organization from Germany and Enable Scotland that have supported Viltis giving the possibility to the members to “open a window to the western county”. The main body of the organization is the council of Viltis composed by 30 people and responsible of all the activities of our organization.

Viltis since 2004 is an association composed by 53 associated members: financially independent brunch organizations located all over the country. Dana and other members often travel all over Lithuania to get in touch with these organizations to know better their problems and to coordinate them in setting up “respite care services” that is one of the actual priority of Viltis. Viltis is also member of Inclusion Europe and Inclusion International. Viltis has partnership with different bodies such as political parties and universities as the organization act as a context of practice and training. In particular for Viltis the link with University is very important also as a link with professor Puras, one the founded members of VILTIS. Furthermore Viltis works to produce and ratify conventions, documents and legal acts: “the convention of rights of persons with mental disabilities is the main document in the actual work of the organizations” Natalija says. However as Natalija points out the ratifying of such legal acts and conventions is not always effective and the rights are often not implemented. “The main ends of Viltis, Natalija says, is that the persons with mental disabilities can have the rights and possibilities to live a safe life, to choose and to live with their families”. Natalija concludes her explanation of Viltis work with a wish: “that the result of our project can be to write another project to realize innovative interventions in the field of mental disabilities”. “This would be the best results of what we are understanding from the interviews” Natalija adds. After that we move to the Sviesa centre: “one of the best day care centre” in Lithuania as Dana says.

1th Day – Visit of Sviesa day care centre.





We arrive in the centre with the Viltis Akimirka van. Sviesa centre is located in the middle of a nice green residential area composed by small family houses. At entrance the director of the Centre welcomes us and guides us to a conference room with a round table and a refreshment. The director of the Centre starts to talk about the work of the centre while Natalija translate in English.

The centre works under a specific welfare program for persons with mental disabilities aimed to improve the quality of life of the person with mental disabilities during the working time of their parents. Parents can leave the children until late (9-10 pm) or also for the whole night if they needs. This is not obligatory but depends on the request of the family. The second task of the centre is to develop the talent and abilities: what person with mental disabilities can do best in their life in regards to the differences of each person.

These two points seem interesting: Sviesa centre seems a flexible service. Flexibility gives the possibilities to the families to express their requests and to be active in the organization of the service itself.  Furthermore the shift of the attention from “the teaching of ability” to “the discovering of the talents” seems interesting.

The traditional day at the centre starts with the arrival of the clients that can have a rest in the centre, relax and communicate with friends and professionals. After that the persons can choose what to do and do not have to follow pre-determinate activities: “one day they can paint, one other they can do theatre or play a drama, one other they can do whatever they wants or go shopping in the city or go in a place they want to go” the director says.

The choice to set up this kind of service is linked with the third end of the centre: to respect a democratic principle giving to the persons with mental disability the possibility to choose. “In Lithuania the soviet influence is still very heavy but we try to show that there is the possibility of a new present”. “To this regards the centre cooperate with university and other organizations to build a broader open minded democratic society” the director says. After that the director of the centre gives to each member of the project team a recently published book with photos of professionals and clients of the centre. The book collects some interviews of mothers of persons with mental disabilities realized by professional journalists.

After that introduction to the centre and its work starts an amazing quick visit of the centre. In more or less 20 minutes we have the possibilities to see a theatre show played by persons attending the centre and operators, to see a ceramic laboratory, to listen to the centre's orchestra, to have a look of  some particular painting technics developed in the centre to improve the talents of the clients.  The visit in Sviesa centre look like explosion of productivity of that place some interested visitors. In the quick visit the clients of centre “change their clothes” to be actors, musicians, artisans, guides. The productivity of SVIESA centre seems a strong, effective message to past and actual representation of the people with mental disabilities as unproductive and to be assisted eternally.

2th Day – Interviews discussion in Viltis office.
Natalia proposes to start with the discussion of Viltis interviews. She underlines the difficulty in doing the interviews with the parents of persons with mental disabilities. “To be honest I have to say it has been hard to take the interviews because many parents do not want to do it because for them, I think, it's hard to remember all this difficult way and life form childhood until now”. “I think that it can be easier to interview parents of persons with mental disabilities and down syndrome but to speak with parents of persons with complex disability has been very difficult”.

She has directly done the interviews with two families. One of them initially agreed to be interviewed but then hesitated and “At the end they write down on a papers the answers to some of the questions but not to all the questions”. Natalija starts reporting this interview: “they do not answers our questions” she underlines. They are parents of a girl born in 1994, with cerebral palsy and spastic tetraplegia. In the interview they criticize the political and welfare agenda for persons with mental disabilities: “everybody speak about integration into society but in Lithuania you never see a person with mental disabilities in a shop or in a restaurant” the parents says. Natalija commenting the interview connect this problem to the physical barriers present in the the country. At the same time the research by Eurobarometro, quoted in our approved project proposal, highlights that in all the European Union the citizens think that is very difficult to take part in a concert, to eat in a restaurant or to attend an art exhibition or a person with mental disabilities.

The problem underlined by this family seems connected to the cultural representation of the persons with mental disabilities and with the way citizens get in touch with them. Care service providers represents a minority not scared by the persons with mental disabilities. What about the others?

The interviewed family members looks at the state as non interested towards their problems. The absence of sanitary and welfare services are seen as the demonstration of the impossibility to get an help from the outside. They quote an article on a newspaper where Dana Migaliova declared that “letting her son in the social service after death would probably bring him fast to die”.

A lack of hope in being helped and the distrust towards every kind of institutions make the discussion of the interviews very hard. Many rhetoric questions are posed by the interviewed parents, as Natalija underlines, bringing us very close to the powerlessness and desperation of this family.

“They give you benefits but nobody care how you cope with your problem” the parents says. However, on the other hand, parents seems gratefully towards two different sanatorium attended by their daughter during childhood. Finally they make a request to the Viltis Akimirka centre they attend: “to organize a bedroom where the families can let her children in they ask for it”.

It's not easy to think about the feelings expressed by this families. “We have to say that this families has the opportunity to attend Viltis Akimirka centre while others families cannot” Natalija says. “We exist for this kind of problem: our lawyer are in every place we discuss about disability to fight for the rights and to develop the condition of person with mental disability” “Since independence of Lithuania 20 years ago a lot have been done and we know we have to do more but at this level of development of the county it's not easy”. “We need time, money and initiators: people full of energy who are active and who want to work”.

Clients such as Lora's parents represent a challenge for the Vilties Akimirka day care centre. Their dissatisfaction, their requests of different services underline a new kind of demand towards the care service providers. Natalija underlines the importance of finding new “initiators”: creative workers committing to build the development of existing services after twenty years since the founding of Viltis.

“Laura lives in Croatia” Tomislav says. “In Croatia there is quite the same situation” Zana adds. “Yes we are convinced of the need of personal assistance” Natalija replies. “Day care centres are not enough: they need persons everyday at home, not only centre where to let children: it's just to help them to stay normal” Zana replies. “Was the situation different when Lora born?” Jamie asks.

“She is 30 years old: she was born in 1984. Lithuania become independent in 1992 and of course the situation has changed since that time”. “Nowadays we have a social system”. “Several things has changed. It easier to know the diagnosis, it's easier to go to the kindergarten, in general it's easier to stay in an integrated way in the school system”. “At the same time we know that personal assistant can be important for persons with mental disabilities but this idea is not developing because it's need lot of money and government is worried about that” Natalija replies. “In Croatia all the money for personal assistance comes from EU” Tomislav says. “We think that the situation should be discussed and carried on at the level of the Municipality: they have social care department and the government should write such a law to allow that”.

It seems important to activate a network of different stakeholders (third sector organizations, public institution, families and professionals) to create new services and innovate the welfare system.

Natalija starts to talk about the second interview with a mother, Irene, of 13 years old girl with down syndrome called Saula. The mother has also two growing children. Her husband was devastated after knowing Saula's disability: “This is a very normal situation” Natalija comments.  The first question Natalija poses is “who or what institution had help you with an advice or providing the necessary support?”. The mother replies she didn't receive help from the institutions. At the same time she remember the precious advice of Saula's doctor “to be just a mother with her daughter”.

“It's difficult to understand and become used to the thought that your child is disabled”. “In that time you need people around giving you moral support” the mother says in the interview. “Irene tells that staying with another mother of a person with mental disability, talking without being judged has been the best help for her”. “It is important not to be alone, to stay with people helping you to look to your situation on the other sides” she says in the interviews.

When she first heard about Viltis society she was a genetic centre where they give a lot of books and brochure about down syndrome. Irene thought that nobody nor institution would help her: she was depressed. Frank and genuine conversation with professionals gives her more help than books” Irene says

Emerges the importance of services where parents can deal with their problems helped by  professionals.

“Yes but also to talk with other parents is important as when I speak with parents they say that I cannot understand because you are not a mother” Zana adds. Natalija passes then to the second question posed to Irene that is “what are the major actual problems and how you solve them?” What institution of community help you most of all?

Irene replies that the problem is “a lack of time and money”. “Lack of time and money” for Irene means than to give extra money to the family budget Irene works at several places and in this way he has not enough time to take care of herself due to the care needs of her daughter such as go to the doctor or somewhere else. Irene and Saulia have a lot of friends within their community but, as Irene says, it has become a luxury to spend some time with them.

A recursive complain regards the lack of money and time. In the first interview we saw that having benefits do not cancel the problem of building reliable relationship with others. Back to front Irene asserts that she cannot stay with friends due to the lack of money and time. It can be argued that with enough money all the social problems would be solved. Our research shows that also in a rich country as Scotland the families face problems of isolation.

To this regard Irene's request of setting up parents training to do handicraft or candles to start do part of their work at home with their sons seems interesting. It is the quality of the time that the family members spend together that matters. To set up productive activities can be an important action to develop the quality of the relationship within the family and with the local community.

Natalija report the second question posed “what kind of services do you and your child need most of all? What kind of service would you like to get?”. Irene starts talking about respite care service. For Irene it is  helpful to have the possibilities to let her daughter with the staff of the respite care service for several hours or days. At the same time Irene asks for professionals coming at home and trained to work with disabled persons. Other important services are for Irene club for disabled persons. Irene says that they should be organized in partnership with municipality with the help from the state.
In general Irene underlines the importance of the training of competences of the care service. This seems an important point:  the training of the staff in doing specific interventions

Natalija comments Irene's request of a club for disabled persons where to have party. She says that Viltis project managers visits one this clubs called Eldorado in Sweden some years ago. Such a clubs for Natalija are very difficult to realize in Lithuania as they are not included in the welfare agenda and has to to be refinanced every year writing specific project. “Another possibilities instead could be to realize it in partnership with the municipality providing a suitable place, paying electricity buildings and being responsible for the continuation of the project”

“We run such a services since 7 years” Zana says. “Every year we write projects, we organize disco and karaoke”. “In Scotland we have clubs for persons with disabilities they can come paying a small amount” “Its very important- Jamies continues- as persons with disabilities can make friendships with other persons”. “And what about the building? Where do you set up the club?” Natalija asks to Zana. “In our building we have two big room one for the disco and one for the ceramic laboratory. Our members like very much to come and we dance and sing with them...unfortunately” Zana replies. “In Lithuania in winter time when it's cold we organize some party or birthday and this room become full of people:  the 21 disable persons attending Vilties Akimirka plus their parents.

“One problem for us is that we work with people living in the city or near the city of Vinkovci and we cannot bring to our centre the person with mental disabilities living in the rural area and they sit at home”. “And on Monday they start asking for the van to come to our centre” Zana adds.

In this regard Bubamara concentrates its activities in the centre and searches for a way to set up project and services also for the families living in the rural area. How to deal with this issue?

Natalija continues talking about the club: “these clubs are very useful, we have a family support program but it's different”. “I think that as they spent 6 hours per day in the centre the club should be set up in another place to make feel them comfortable and relaxed”

Services are organized in different ways, different feeling are shared by the clients and the staff. As an example “Vilties Akimirka” day care centre differs from the Bubamara centre for persons with mild disabilities pursuing a socialization functions. The importance of that socialization function confirms the idea that the main problems of the families of intellectual disabilities are relational problems such as isolation.

Zana underlines Bubamara's attention and interest in organizing fun and socialization services such as Karaoke, rock festival and so on as innovative intervention in the field of disability. At this point Natalija says: “You are right! We have to write projects and projects, as you do, otherwise Municipality doesn't hear our voice” Natalija adds. “That's what we do in Croatia. This year we have financed 20 new personal assistants with European Union's founding” Tomislav replies.

Projects can be used as a tool to introduce new services in the welfare system in an experimental way. Projects, as Natalija says, can be used to start a dialogue with local and central political institutions to innovate welfare programs.

Coming back to the second interviews Irene says that community and relationships with others are very much important in helping family with mental disabilities to live an interesting life. Finally regarding the future Irene looks at college as an opportunity for her daughter to became a specialist in growing up plants and to help them. Irene in this way again underlines the importance for her daughter to be involved in productive activities. Again Irene underlines the importance of the training and the competence of the care service providers working with the persons with mental disabilities.

After that we discuss the differences between the two interviews: the hope of Irene compared to the desperation of the parents of the girl with cerebral palsy. Differences related to the diagnosis but also to the the age of the person with disabilities. Then comes the turn of the third interview to a mother of 35 years old man called Paolos. “Paolos has blind, autism, rubella syndrome, total disability man” Natalija says. She starts read the content of the interview. The interviewed mother starts talks about her experience with services since her son has born. Since the beginning doctors and parents was the main help not for the specialised support but for the human support.

Specialized support in this sense is seen as a technical “non-emotional” support.

During the soviet regimes disability was certified by other labels: children was categorized and divided between “organized and non-organized”. The prescribed path for the non organized children was “the mental institution”. The mother decides not to put Paolos in such an institution. “Nowadays much have been changed since the time of independence and there are much more services”. “However parents with children with severe form of disability are worried about the future” the mother says. In this context welfare system doesn't represent reliable stakeholders. For the interviewed parents “respite care services” carried out by trained social workers represent a very important service: “parents need times for themselves and children are bored to stay all the day with parents”.

Personal assistance is seen as a crucial intervention to be financed by the municipality and to be set at home or in other context where the person with disability lives.

“Personal assistance should be address not only to taking care but should also intervene on communication's problems” the mother says.

The mother suggests that temporary respired care service such as day care centre have to be integrated with personal assistance. In both cases the mother underlines the importance of the training of the staff working in the services. To be trained seems necessary to be able to pursue and achieve differentiated and integrated objectives whiting the two kind of services.

Furthermore in the report of the interview emerges a good and trustful relationship within the local community: the mother speaks of reliable persons competent in dealing with his son

For the mother the questions of each parent are “why me? why my child? What we are guilty for?”. She underlines the importance of the YAID project “where professional and parents stay on the same table to talk about problems and also to find a way to address them”. “The next step will be to invite also the persons with disabilities in the table” the mother adds.

“I think we have seen in all the interview a general need of personal assistance” Natalija comments. “May be the Scottish team can help about this with consultation and advice” she adds. “What are the criteria for personal assistance for persons with mental disabilities?” Zana asks.

“Which type of personal assistance do you mean? to live independently? to stay in a respite care centre? To go at school?” Jamie replies.

Personal assistance seems to be required to facilitate the persons with disabilities in living different context.

We run teaching assistance and personal assistance for who is physically disabled but we do not run personal assistance for people with intellectual disability” Zana adds.

It's not easy to find out criteria for the personal assistance in the field of mental disabilities. Many factors are considered: the commitment of the workers, the context where the intervention is set up, type of disability.

Dana connects the level of disability with the improvement of social and communication skills as an objective of the personal assistance. Linda explains the structures of the personal assistance service in Scottland: the social work department decides how many hours a person or a family can have after assessing the level of needs.

“For us the problem is not to leave persons with disability in the institution to help parents to stay at home that's why we want to use personal assistant” Zana says. Jamie says that there are questionnaires used to assess the different abilities of the persons: the ability to live independently, the ability to move the ability to prepare food, the ability to wash themselves. “The abilities are social indicators assessed by local authorities' social workers” Linda sdds. Jamie underlines problems about the questionnaires filled to give less money to the client. “In Lithuania the assessing system is changing and now we use mini mental health test, and social skills and communication skills test” Dana says. “Nowadays one of the big things are changing in Scotland is that we are moving from a system where a social workers from a local authority assessing the needs to a system where the social workers says this is the money you get and now you can choose how to use it. “In Croatia we don't have enough money to the assess procedure and the government give to the associations the responsibility to decide and we have problems with who don't get the services” Tomislav says. “You can become an enemy some people and they become enemy to the others” Natalija adds. “There are also problems in Scotland that is a more developed system where people have to fight and have to prove and have to be assesses by people they don't know” Jamie says.

Felice asks Zana what does she means for criteria.  “When we write projects we have to explain why we choose 50 person and not others. And if we can explain why we choose this people we have a criteria. We must set some criteria” Zana replies.

A criteria in this sense means being able to explain why a specific intervention is used to address a specific problem. To understand the problems of the families to analyse seems a good way to find out criteria of intervention. “Parents in the interviews speaking about personal assistance ask for trained professional able to address problems of communication” Felice says. Communication represents an important area related to the personal assistance service and to the training of staff.

We come back to the first Lithuanian interview: the parents use a day care service for ten hours a day but they don't feel to be helped. “I think is important to deal also with the satisfaction of the client and with how the live these services. The problem it's not only to build what we don't have but also to use something that we have” Felice says.

We underlines the importance of working in partnership with other stakeholders in the care service providing. “The services for the basic needs has to be guaranteed by the Municipality or by the state and have, other services has to be financed for the 80% by municipality and for 20 % client” Dana says. “But it's very difficult to define a way to organize services not depending just on medical indicators. We have to use also other indicators” she adds.

To understand what kind of services can be useful for the families and the persons with mental disabilities is not taken for granted. The construction of criteria of intervention seems still ongoing in each country.

“When I go to the travel agency to book some excursion for our members they offer just rehabilitation centre”. “They do not understand that people with disability maybe wants to see some arts” Zana says.

“A physical disabled persons within the independent living philosophy can choose his personal assistance and here the parents can choose. But if they have severe form of disability they do not never know what they want.  That's why we must set up criteria” Zana says.
This is why parents ask for professionals helping them in understanding what do their children want this is the problem of communication” Felice says.“If you are professional you can understand emotions” Dana says.

How to involve in active way the person with mental disabilities in the construction of the service they use? An important resource can be to understand the relationship between the person with mental disabilities and the family members involving the whole families in the setting up of the services.

Talking about intervention criteria bring us to consider how to engage and how to train a personal assistant. “In the first meeting I said that the best personal assistant in practice we know is the first or second neighbour” Tomislav says. “Maybe be, people who live close to it” Natalija says. “But this can be difficult in Rome where parents denounce a distrustful relationship with their local community. Probably for your context it is different”. Felice comments.

“Yes it's different. For example in Zagreb they set criteria for teaching assistant: they must have pedagogical degree. I can't applied this criteria in Vinkovci or in a village near to Vinkovci because I don't have people like that and I don't have money to pay for that. So the criteria for big city and rural area are very different and not all the disabled person live in Vilnius or Rome or Vinkovci or Glasgow” Zana says. “We have like a similar situation in Scotland that is rural as well and in the north we have people living in villages and we can have the same problem in recruiting staff to work there” Jamie says.

“We always organize training for every new personal assistance: they come to us to have special training after the school. But they are chosen by the person with physical disability. The member of my organization came to me and say I want him to be my personal assistance.  They come to us for the training and go to work” Zana says.

“So the problem regards how can set criteria for the personal assistance for persons with mental disability” Felice says. “Yes who does decides?” Zana replies. “the lady in the video she would be able to decide” Jamie says. “With person with very complex need or not verbal communication you can ask a member of the family or a social workers to understand what the person like to do and then you can interview the possible social workers to understand if is the right person” Linda suggests.

A general difficulty in defining what are the objectives of the personal assistance service in the field of mental disabilities is highlighted. The personal assistance service in the field of intellectual disabilities suggests a shift from the basic assistance (assistance to wash, to clean etc) to new form of assistance: an assistance to communicate, to build social relationship, to be productive and carry on a social function. In this regards the most important issue seems to understand how to train  staff able to give this kind of assistance.

Finally at the end of the meeting we consider the importance of the recovering the histories of the families within the welfare system. “The clinical card do not give that kind of information cause is much more oriented to the medical treatment. But this is something organization like our can do can do as we have an histories with this people. We work together with them for many years we know what are their problems” Felice says. “We would develop a social model to make a map or a path from where the person have started to where the progression is going” Linda says. “We would write something that can help us bear the intervention” Felice says.

The meeting finishes.
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